How old is too old to serve as president and should there be an expiration date?

It’s a national conversation at the moment. Both Donald Trump, 78, and Joe Biden, 81, are well beyond the age most people retire. Either one of them would be the oldest person ever inaugurated to serve as president if they win in November.

Trump has had his share of seemingly senior moments but following a disastrous debate performance last week, it’s Biden and his mental acuity that is on everybody’s minds and lips.

The Tribune talked about the intersection of age and political leadership, and the rematch between Biden and Trump with several people, all now in their 70s or older, who have served elective office. While they occupied a variety of offices, from local to statewide, and include both Republicans and Democrats, they agreed on one thing when it comes to the opening question in this piece — it depends.

“Some people at 75 are very, very old and some are very, very vigorous,” said Sen. Larry Craig who is retired and now lives at Boise. “It really does vary with the individual.”

Craig, who is 78 and was pruning grape vines when the Tribune called, represented Idaho in the Senate from 1990 to 2009 and was previously elected to the U.S. House of Representatives five times.

In the Senate he served with Biden and knew colleagues that stayed well past the time they were effective legislators.

“I remember Strom Thurmond in the last few years and it was embarrassingly sad and I know other people who should have retired well before they did,” he said. “For me it was a sadness because they were in some way damaging their legacy.”

Craig thinks Biden is at that point but said he threatens to damage more than just his image.

“He speaks for and is the leader of the most dynamic, richest and most powerful country in the world. Our country deserves a more dynamic, livelier person and, in my opinion, a younger person.”

During the debate, Craig said Trump, while also old, did not appear to have lost a step.

“Ironically, just across the stage was a man full of thought, energy and ideas and he looked good and had a tremendous presentation,” he said. “Agree or disagree with his policy and style, he was active and alive in every respect.’

Trump lied frequently throughout the debate and his track record of lying about the results of the 2020 election and his attempts to overturn it frighten many voters. For them, Biden’s age and mental capacity are contrasted with fears of what Trump may do if he again occupies the Oval Office.

Trump’s potential for misdeeds and implementation of policies they oppose is a critical factor in their thinking about Biden. Ron Beitelspacher, of Grangville, thinks, given Biden’s age and debate performance, he is unable to win and should step aside. John Rusche, of Lewiston, thinks the threat of Trump is so severe that in a Biden-vs-Trump race, Biden is the only choice.

Beitelspacher referenced Trump’s recent suggestion that former Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., should face a televised military tribunal, presumably for her role as co-chairperson of the House Select Committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the Capital and Trump’s role in it.

“With what the Supreme Court has done just (last) week and the grant of immunity to the president, we have in effect cut loose the president in future years to do whatever the hell he wants,” Beitelspacher said. “Joe Biden has done a hell of a job but if he loses this election, I think we are in danger of losing democracy.”

Beitelspacher, a Democrat who served 12 years in the Idaho Senate, is now 79 and was saddling horses and readying for a ride on Mount Idaho while chatting with the Tribune. He would like Biden to reflect on his oath of office.

“If he takes it seriously, then he needs to sit down and look at a rerun of his debate and if he was sick, that is one thing. But if that is how he normally is, he needs to get the hell out of there.”

Rusche, a Democrat, spent a dozen years in the Idaho House and served as minority leader for much of that time. He said older people can be an asset

“There is a real value in having gone through a number of economical cycles and geopolitical turmoil and carrying that experience and your ability to see and read people and make that available in a leadership role.”

He noted that older people can sometimes lose touch with the needs, wants and desires of younger generations but said Biden, as evidenced by his work to relieve student debt, hasn’t done that. Unlike his view of Trump, Rusche trusts Biden to assemble a competent and experienced team to help him run the country.

“I don’t know him but I recognize the values he holds and displays, his compassion and also the ability to identify and encourage leadership in a team,” he said. “He could have done better on the stage but we are not selecting a debater-in-chief, we are selecting a president, which is much more of a leadership role.”

When David Leroy was elected attorney general of Idaho in 1978, he was the youngest state AG in the country — some said too young.

“So the allegation of incompetence by chronology can be made at both ends of the scale,” he said.

At 76, Leroy practices law full-time and was in his Boise office writing a memo to the U.S. attorney general when the Tribune called. In addition to serving as AG, the Republican was Idaho’s Lt. governor from 1979-83 and later was chosen by President George H.W. Bush to head the U.S. Nuclear Negotiator, a now defunct office. He recalls visiting with Jim Baker, a former chief of staff for the elder President Bush and being told that keeping busy in old age is critical.

“I have taken that as pretty good advice,” he said. “But when you get to the office in public or private life you need to be very honest with yourself if your functions cannot be fully performed with accuracy, diligence and competence. That is the test which I would suggest for any politician, not merely chronological age.”

He says Biden fails that test.

“Sadly, for the country and without regard to party, President Biden is obviously not up to the task of being chief executive of this year. Whether it’s six hours a day or a bad debate night, if a president can’t perform at all hours in all challenges, the country is imperiled.”

John Bradbury, a Democrat, compares President Biden’s decision to run for a second term with late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bater Ginsburg’s stubborn refusal to retire while President Barack Obama was still in office. She was in poor health and some on the left wanted her to step down so Obama, with the help of a Democratically controlled Senate, could appoint a successor.

Ginsberg died in 2020 while Trump was president. He appointed Amy Coney Barrett to replace her.

“She let pride get in the way of getting off the court when there could have been a decent replacement,” Bradbury said.

Bradbury, 87, said Biden has had a remarkable career but with the backdrop of the results of Ginsburg’s decision and the result, he would like to cast his ballot for someone else.

“I wish I had a different choice. I would never vote for Trump but I wish I had another choice,” he said.

Barker may be contacted at ebarker@lmtribune.com or at (208) 848-2273. Follow him on Twitter @ezebarker.